"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
Now, back to the actual day of the Messiah's bith. Even though this is important, we must remember, that is more important to as to the why, not nessesarily the when Y'shua came. Over the next few days, we will state only the facts concerning this controversial subject. Remember, it is only by God's Holy Spirit and your relationship with him that you arrive at the truth. This is written in Acts 17:11.
"... in that they received the message with all eagerness of heart, but searched the scriptures to whether those things were so."
To establish the birth month of Yeshua, we have to first look at the birth of Yochanan, John, the baptist which begins with his conception.
In Luke 1:5-25, the angel, Gavri-El Gabriel, appeared to Zachar'yah, Zacharias, John the Baptist's Father, as he was performing his duties in the Temple. This was during the priestly course of Abiyah,Abia. This course of priests ministered in the Temple the eighth week of the Hebrew year as dictated by King David in 1 Chronicles 24:10. This is also backed up and documented in both the Talmud and the Mishnah.
The eighth week runs its course during the last week of the second Hebrew month of Iyar and the first week of the third Hebrew month of Sivan, ending at Shavuot, Pentecost. This is our starting point to establish the month of our Messiahs birth.
The angel indicated that Zachar'yahs prayer, for a son, had been answered. Keep in mind the wording here. He said that Zachar'yahs prayer, for a son, has been answered, not going to be answered. That means that we can put the conception of Yochanan, John the Baptist, around the time of Zachar'yahs priestly service, during the last week of the Hebrew month of Iyar, very near the time of Shavuot, the Feast of Pentecost, in the second week of the month of Sivan, the third Hebrew month. Pentecost or Shavuot is approximately May-June time period.
Remember, there is a lot to look at, so we'll break it up into small managable and consumable parts and finish this up over the next few posts.
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeletevacation over! (as you say). I will find this interesting as I have always been fascinated by Jewish data. I will get around to reading your previous posts too, I have loads of catching up to do as far as blogging is concerned. Nice to be back interacting.
Hey Brenda, I'm glad you are back online. Have you finished settling in, at your new place?
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI think we must have a fascination with rebuilding. Every time we move to a different home it is a challenge. I have always loved a challenge that improves something. At the moment we are having two rooms knocked into one to make a nice new kitchen, then we are intending to have the living room made larger. In forty nine years of marriage we have moved over twenty times (many of those were rented apartments when we were moving around Australia. I had better stop here Keith or I will continue forever. My husband always tells people 'If you see any two legged donkeys around, it's because Brenda has talked the hind legs off them.'
Will probably have a new post up next week.
God bless
I'll be looking for it.
Delete"If you see any two legged donkeys around, it's because Brenda has talked the hind legs off them."
ReplyDeleteThat is cool Brenda :-) I think your husband knows you well.
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeleteyes my husband knows me well, ha ha! I do love talking, writing and interacting with people. I think I love the diversity in people, and maybe that is why I really love what I believe the Lord has called me to do. I can not judge a person by what I see or hear, the Lord loves all of mankind and wants them to be saved. A member of the family visited this morning and he mentioned that he had no sympathy with alcoholics as he said they bring it on themselves. I told him of someone I met in the street who was an alcoholic, and the reason he was that way was because he had killed someone in one of the wars and he could not forgive himself. The alcohol was used to try to block out the face of the person he had shot, he was crying as he told me. I told him that God saw his sorrow and has forgiveness for him. He changed after that through starting to seek the Lord. It was his time to be called to Jesus and that word was the only thing that could give him peace, I know this fact in my own life.
Tell me Brenda, If the Lord loves ALL mankind, then why did He hated Esau (Rom.9:13).
ReplyDeleteWell, just a thought.
I'm not sure whether I prefer two legged donkeys or four legged donkeys, I have to think about that :-)
If you read Romans chapter 9 Paul all this is explained, it is not foolishness to those who are in Christ.
ReplyDeleteI prefer four legged donkeys Paul but I would find it very difficult to stop talking so much, so I suppose there have to be two legged ones around too.
If I can interrupt this conversation, the word is missed translated as "hate" in English. That is why I tell you Paul, to get back to what the Greek actually means. The word is actually translated properly as "rejected" Does that help you to understand?
ReplyDeleteThank you for interrupting, Keith. This is why is says that when we are in Christ all parts work together.
ReplyDeleteGod looks at a man from the inside, for as a man thinks so he is and this is what God both hates and rejects, the spiritual actions (hate also has an intense meaning in the English dictionary). Esau gave up his birth right for worldly food, there are many spiritual messages in the scriptures - regarding both the nations and the individual.
Once again, my sister, we agree.
DeleteBrenda, so then, do you agree with the Scriptures, that God does not love ALL MANKIND ?
ReplyDeleteI's reasonable to say, If God hated Esau, He didn't loved ALL MANKIND.
It amazes me that you just can't agree with what the Scriptures said.
Brother Keith, I have three different Bible versions in front of me and ALL said 'HATED'.
So then, do you think that it doesn't mean 'hated' when it clearly said 'hated' ?
Well brother, I don't speak Greek or Swahili, therefore I need to believe what it says in English.
It makes sense doesn't it ?
Not only that, but the Lord hates the wicked and all evildoers (Ps. 11:5 and 26:5), and in (Rev. 3:19) the Lord Jesus said, 'As many as I love I rebuke' .
Does that mean that He loves ALL MANKIND ??
I think NOT my friend.
Ups, I nearly forget, If God hates someone, He also will reject them.
ReplyDeleteYes Paul,
ReplyDeleteGod loved the world so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die, as a sacrifice, to get rid of the sin that He hated. That is how much He loved the world.
Hey Paul, Once again, you need to take the whole counsel of God and apply. It's not that God hates the invidual, but the sin behind them. When the person becomes the sin, then it can become confusing. I'll give you that. But, it doesn't change the fact that God loves everyone, my friend.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, if I created an English version of the Bible, would you take it as the Gospel Truth? I doubt it very much. In the same way, you must validate the English versions, you are using, against the original language.
Brenda, again, I'm amazed that you just can't give me a clear and simple answer.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that ?
Brother Keith, you need to read the Scriptures properly and perhaps in English.
It says, ' that He hated Esau before he was born, while still in the womb, before he done good or evil' Rom. 9:11.
Look Keith, the sin is not behind them, but in front of them and He hates the sinner with his sins.
And if you want to know why, keep on reading, but in English.
Both of you my friends, you don't read the Scriptures properly, you need to read it and then believe it, and then preach it and teach it.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteregarding the scriptures there is not a simple answer that would satisfy the carnal mind. The scriptures are the voice of God speaking to the children of God who are born of His Spirit. Just as I do not say 'yes' and 'no' at the same time, neither does God. He can say at one time to me 'Make no friends with an angry man' yet at another time He can say to me that if anyone has something against me I have to go to that person and be reconciled to him. As we learn His ways we grow in Him and understand His ways more.
Jesus was the Word of God made flesh, That Word was with God and was God. I accept what that scripture says, as it says it Paul. God is Spirit, and when we accept that then it makes complete sense. Jesus came in the form of sinful man.
I can accept what is written in Philippians ch. 2 vs. 5 - 11 with no problem Paul:-
' Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'
No Brenda, you don't accept what the Scriptures say and neither do you believe it or understand it.
ReplyDeleteIf you would believe Romans 9:11, you would have given me an 'amen', but you do not and you can not agree with Scriptures.
You are saying that God loves ALL mankind and that is contrary to what the Scriptures said and yet you are unwilling to repent of your error and unbelief.
I think that the Lord God Almighty Jesus Christ of Nazareth could stand in front of you and you would still not believe in Him.
Brenda, a long time ago I have asked you to deal with that, or you will go from error to greater error.
Look Brenda, there is NO back door, you cannot escape, and throwing in red herrings only confuses the issue. If you don't agree with the Scriptures, or understand it, how will you understand Philippians 2:5-11 ? Well, it
is impossible!
Don't quote a metaphor and let us think that you understand it, without an explanation.
I think that the best way to start is with the doctrine of God.
But if you can't believe that Jesus is that God, then perhaps try to agree with Romans 9:11.
At least start somewhere.
I agree with all scripture Paul, whatever that word speaks to me at any given time as my daily manna.
ReplyDelete"Both of you my friends, you don't read the Scriptures properly, you need to read it and then believe it, and then preach it and teach it."
ReplyDeleteThat's funny! There are plenty verses, where it plainly says that your position is way off mark, but you ignore it. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
I'm curious. Is there another language that you speak?
No Brenda, you don't believe the Scriptures at all.
ReplyDeleteYou say that God loves ALL mankind, and God said that He does NOT!
Everything you say is opposite to what the Scriptures said.
The Scriptures said, that Jesus and the Father are ONE, but you are saying contrary to Scriptures, 'Jesus and the Father are TWO'.
Isaiah and Thomas and I and ALL Scripture calls Jesus 'GOD', the ONLY God! but you are saying contrary to the Scriptures that Jesus is NOT God, but Yahweh is God.
Brenda, you are eating the wrong food, the forbidden food which is detestable to the only true God (Jude 1:25).
Keith, my mother tongue is Swiss and I also speak fluently or perfect German, we Swiss call it high-German. Because Switzerland is such a small country, therefore we need to speak German, French and Italian in order to communicate with our neighbor countries.
ReplyDeleteI do not speak French, but I also speak a rusty Italian.
Now I call myself Australian, because I have made Australia my home.
It's a great country my friend, perhaps better than Switzerland, of course that is debatable :-)
Yes my friend, I do have a German Bible and a Greek Bible and an English Bible, but I do not debate in any other Language than the language we all happen to speak and understand.
The message of the Gospel has to be CLEAR to everyone, and the introduction of another language brings confusion and a mistrust to the validity of the Bible.
Example; If the Scriptures say that God HATED Esau, then any other language contrary to that is deceptive and destructive.
The Scripture requires from us that we BELIEVE the Scriptures. We should NOT nullify or discredit the Word of God with another language.
Look my friend, you don't need to be Einstein to know what the Scriptures say and mean.
It is required from you that you COME to the Lord Jesus Christ just as a little child (I do not mean, to be childish), but simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and boot ALL your other gods out of your life, or you will perish with them. Yes that includes Yahweh.
Well, that isn't complicated, is it ?
I would like to win you and Brenda for the Lord Jesus Christ, and not lose you to this false god called Yahweh.
"The message of the Gospel has to be CLEAR to everyone, and the introduction of another language brings confusion and a mistrust to the validity of the Bible."
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that the New Testament was written originally, in Greek, and then translated, into English, making the English translation, the introduction of another language.
While making the transition from German to English, did you always say the correct word for what you were trying to say?
Keith, the New Testament originally was not written in Greek.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that John was sitting on the isle of Patmos writing the Book of Revelation in Greek ?
Or Paul in Prison writing the epistles in Greek ?
No my friend, you are mistaken.
The Scripture is the written WORD of God and it has been put on paper by the Spirit of the Lord in whatever language it is written and will be written.
And only those who have received the Spirit of God are able to rightly interpret the Scriptures, because all Scriptures are spiritually discerned.
A man without the Spirit of God is dead, and spiritually dead people cannot discern or understand the things of God.
I, as a man will make mistakes in translating from one language to another, but the Spirit of God does not make mistakes.
Even if a word is not absolutely rightly interpreted, the meaning is still there, and the meaning is always what the Lord intended for us to know. That is the same in any language, if one word is not exactly the best word chosen, the meaning is still there.
Keith, it is good to study the Scriptures and to show yourself approved. I do exactly the same as you, but it is better to come to Jesus and believe in Him personally.
Remember what the Lord Jesus has said, ' you search the Scriptures and you think that in them (the Scriptures) you have eternal life, but it is these (the Scriptures), who speak of Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.'
You see, knowledge alone is not good enough, it is better to personally know Jesus who is the Christ.
Otherwise you end up the same as everyone else with an empty religion which profits you nothing.
The question is the heart.
Jesus said, ' with your lips you draw close to Me, but with your heart you are faaaar from Me.
Can you see, without the Lord Jesus everything is RELIGION, and I hate religion with a passion.
"Do you think that John was sitting on the isle of Patmos writing the Book of Revelation in Greek ?
ReplyDeleteOr Paul in Prison writing the epistles in Greek ?"
Why Yes, I do. Greek was the official language of the Roman Empire, at that time.
"The Scripture is the written WORD of God and it has been put on paper by the Spirit of the Lord in whatever language it is written and will be written."
That means that the Spirit of God has made many mistakes, because you can't find an English version, of the Bible, that doesn't conflict with each other, in one way or another.
"Jesus said, ' with your lips you draw close to Me, but with your heart you are faaaar from Me."
Wow! There you go again, misquoting scripture. Y'shua, Jesus, didn't say that, even in your english version. It was YHWH, the Ehyeh, Asher Ehyeh. Read Isaiah 29:10-13. It was the Y'shua's Father. Even in Matthew 15, Jesus even says that it was an Isaiah quote, quoting YHWH, his Father.
"Can you see, without the Lord Jesus everything is RELIGION, and I hate religion with a passion."
Something we both agree on.
You are a unique individual, Paul. You do sharpen my Sword. However, your quoting of scriptures is bad.
Keith, John and Paul were both Jews and why would they write in Greek ? How do you know whether they could speak Greek ?
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't care whether they were writing in Swahili or not.
All of us can read the Bible and therefore we are without excuse.
Who do you think is speaking in Isaiah 29:10-13 ? Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh ?
Certainly NOT!
It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is speaking, just the same as Jesus is speaking through the mouth of Paul (2 Cor. 13:3).
All the prophets of the Old Testament testified about the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43), and no one ever testified about another god called Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh or Yahweh.
The hearts of the hypocrites are far from the Lord Jesus Christ, but close to another god.
Just read the Scriptures properly. Jesus is speaking, "This people honors Me (Jesus) with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they WORSHIP Me (Jesus), teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. (Mark 7:6-7"
It is you who does not worship the Lord Jesus, but anyone else worships the Lord JESUS Christ (Mat. 2:11 and 14:33 and 28:8 and 28:17 etc.
You don't worship Jesus and your doctrines are the precepts of men.
Look my friend, there is no way out, you need to turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ who has bought you with the price of His BLOOD.
You do NOT belong to yourself, but you belong to Him who has bought you, and that is JESUS.
Do me a favor and read Mark 7, in context. There is one thing glaringly missing, the reaction of the Pharisees. Every time, without exception, if Jesus responded with anything, that could be confused or be representative of him refering to himself as God, they went to stone him or made plans to kill him. They didn't, because Jesus was quoting scripture.
ReplyDeleteListen Paul, the oneness doctrine, you are espousing, is just not scriptural.